Author Topic: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English  (Read 10355 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« on: September 14, 2009, 03:27:11 pm »
So I'm not even honestly sure where to even begin with this... I guess I'll just go with a timeline approach.

June 27
I engaged Anton English (handle of 'stinky' on here) to see about this as a tuning solution for my car.

His prices were $800 for the installation with basic tune, or $1000 for a tune that would be more personalized on the car.

After some back and forth e-mails I opted for the $800 option, as I had no real performance mods which might require fine tuning.


July 10
I drove down to Airdrie, to Anton's home where We installed the board and I drove home. The next day when driving the car began exhibiting an extreme shudder and backfiring behavior for approximately 5 minutes all through the rev and load range, until finally settling down and driving normally again. This behavior continued on every cold start following the ESL

I drove like this troubleshooting everything (coil pack swap etc.), gas being used, ECU connectors etc. etc. until...


July 22
Contacted Anton who suggested I could limp the car to Airdrie to look at it, meanwhile Laski (SQUINY on here) was coming down to have his ESL installed the next day.

SQUINY reported the same issues, and we came to the conclusion we may have faulty boards. Anton then ordered two replacements from the UK.


July 30
I received a replacement stock ECU from Anton to drive with until the new boards arrive.


August 13
I drive down to Airdrie again, Anton and I install the new ESL board and try again, same issue with both my replacement and the one intended for SQUINY.

Anton promises a full refund, even if it means eating a loss on the deal after he returns all the hardware to the UK.

August 14
I receive a half-refund, the rest pending Anton's refunds from ESL


2 AND A HALF WEEKS PASS WITHOUT CONTACT


September 1
I e-mail Anton asking when I can expect the second half of the refund. Anton replies with no information telling me I will hear from him when he has news.


2 MORE WEEKS PASS WITHOUT CONTACT


September 14 - NOW
I e-mail Anton looking for an update as it had been a month since leaving Airdrie with nothing to show for my money. Anton changes his promise to me telling me that if I want an immediate solution he will offer to give me $400 credit in future tuning, and $400 that was already refunded on the hardware saying that his tuning was non-refundable.

I press him on this, pointing out that he had PROMISED a full refund.

I e-mailed ESL who responded quickly, telling me they would be refunding Anton's money as soon as they received the hardware, and that the delay was caused by Anton screwing up the shipping instructions.

Anton then reacts aggressively to being pressed for answers, accusing me of unprofessionalism, a lack of interest in my car (by asking for a refund), and of having an accusatory tone in my inquiries about the status of the refund.

At this point he turns completely saying he had changed his mind about giving a refund, saying: "I am finished working with you. You may start to slander me all over the internet, quote my emails, and do whatever else you choose."

--

I e-mailed Anton one last time before beginning to recount this tale of woe giving him a chance to come through, offering the following: I would keep in contact with ESL and leave Anton be, with the agreement that when ESL confirmed they had received their product back, and refunded Anton, then I would receive my refund.

Anton sheepishly admits in one final e-mail that his relationship with the owner of ESL is strained so far that the two are barely communicating, and that upon sending the package, it had failed to be delivered 3 times, and that while working to reach a shipping solution, the hardware was destroyed by customs.

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2009, 03:36:32 pm »
End result:

I am out $400 with nothing to show for it but a sour taste in my mouth, and 2 trips to Airdrie for no reason.

I have been lied to, had the truth hidden, and feel victimized by a member of the car community.

The ESL tuning solution is a good one... IF it works. There are 4 people on the continent who have functional ESL installations on their car, but following those 4, the next 4 boards received were all defective.

There are a few things I expect as a customer.

1. To exchange money for a good or service
2. To retain goods purchased
3. A refund in the case of faulty product
4. Customer service

In this I paid money to have my product destroyed, without proper refund, and zero customer service.

I believe I more than upheld my role as a consumer, which generally is limited to handing over money in exchange for a good or service.

I even went so far as to hide the truth from other members of this forum, and try to convince others to go for the service, believing that the difficulties would be ironed out, so as not to harm Anton's business.

HAD I BEEN KEPT IN THE LOOP... I probably would be more sympathetic, but as it is, Anton English has proven himself to be untrustworthy in business matters.

Hopefully.. HOPEFULLY he's being truthful to Laski (SQUINY) and helps make him whole, but he's definitely uckfayed me, for no other reason than my wanting to know the truth.

Offline Grasp

  • Rivaling ZZ-TOP
  • *****
  • Posts: 1025
  • Soren
  • Location: Edmonton
  • Ride: All Toyota, All the time haha! 1990s Hiace Van, Crown Athlete with 1J! and Altezza
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2009, 04:11:51 pm »
Ouch, well, there are always 2 sides to every story, but that story isn't leaving lots of room for Anton.  I had planned on using Anton before I got my STi, but had since heard that the tunes (Piggyback - 2 tunes) that I got are much better than what could be provided by ESL, I decided to put it off.  I do think that Anton needs to answer this here, I don't have an issue if problems arise, but they need to be dealt with properly.
Right is tight. Come Check out the Import-Era
http://import-era.com

Offline Guglianoh

  • Rivaling ZZ-TOP
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
  • Location: Calgary, AB
  • Ride: Benson B20 Turbo EK/2012 Kawasaki ER6N
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2009, 07:17:22 pm »
Wow! thanks a lot doubtless, i was going to use Antons services also but i has a little hesitant when he didn't reply to my emails for a while (about 2 weeks) i well definitely be looking for a new product. i feel for you man the sucks!  >:(
Horse Power is a lot like sex, you can never get enough!

http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=27931.0

Offline Pee_Sack

  • Rivaling ZZ-TOP
  • *****
  • Posts: 1958
  • Location: Fort McMurray
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2009, 07:44:08 pm »
I really hate reading stories like this, makes me angry. 

Please keep this civil guys, it can easily get out of hand and we will be forced to close it.

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2009, 08:49:25 pm »
Agreed, this is a consumer warning, not a forum for the voicing of personal grievances.

Update:

Anton and I have gone back and forth a bit more since this post.

He told me that he learned of the product destruction by customs this morning around 11:00am, which interestingly was immediately before he reneged on his promise to refund the full amount of my investment.

Edit: I went through the e-mail history again - there was no mention that the 'tuning fee' was non-refundable until AFTER he knew the hardware was destroyed.

Clearly by the timeline it was his intention in this chain of events to incite this disagreement in the hopes that he would find grounds to deny refunding my money.

I do not intend to slander him or print libelous things, merely share my experience. His character as a businessman and as an individual is up to you to decide.

Caveat emptor.

Edit: Here are links to the relevant websites for the companies involved - should you wish to contact them yourselves.

www.stay-tuned.ca - Anton English's site
www.enduringsolutions.co.uk - Enduring Solutions (makers of the hardware)

JDM_Dave

  • Guest
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 08:52:30 pm »
OMG, I'm so glad I never went threw with this chip board tune. WOW >:(

Offline Speed Stick

  • WSC Supporter
  • Beards Comin in Nice
  • *****
  • Posts: 890
  • Location: Halifax, NS
  • Ride: SG5, JZX100
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2009, 10:41:24 pm »
That's crazy bad. I understand how you would feel. You should have contacted me on your way through red deer. I would have let you try my ecu since mine works perfect.  We could have tried yours in my car as well just for fun.
1993 GC8 WRX(SOLD)
2004 5spd FXT
1997 5Spd JZX100 Chaser

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2009, 10:55:38 pm »
Speed, well, mine worked, but only after it had finished coughing its guts up all over the place due to some fault or another on the board.

Once the car had finished having it's initial fit, it was most definitely a more impressive car, I loved it, but the multiple batches of faulty hardware caused a loss of faith that it could be resolved.

Offline Speed Stick

  • WSC Supporter
  • Beards Comin in Nice
  • *****
  • Posts: 890
  • Location: Halifax, NS
  • Ride: SG5, JZX100
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 11:23:08 pm »
Yeah I guess you could easily just get another defective unit. Well hopefully you manage to get things worked out best as possible.
1993 GC8 WRX(SOLD)
2004 5spd FXT
1997 5Spd JZX100 Chaser

Offline sniper512

  • Beards Comin in Nice
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
  • Location: Cranbrook, BC
  • Ride: 2003 Bug to the Eye
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2009, 12:35:19 am »
I am not here to slam anyone, but I will say that upon talking with Anton about his tune I promptly went with Rob's tune on Nasioc and I am very glad of that. I just didn't feel confident with his answers to my questions maybe at the time he was new to Subies I am not sure.

stinky_1

  • Guest
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 10:11:09 am »
I will try to keep this short.

Some things presented are misleading, and imply Alex to be 100% free of any guilt. By his own admission, he is out to get his moneys worth. So, I suppose its fair for him to slander me and my company. I guess now that he is putting my full name up he will have my address phone number and other personal information up soon too??


On to the tuning......

Care to share what your thoughts of the car were after the tune? How about your impressions of your car with my tune compared to the new cars you went to look at?

What this comes down to is

1) there was a problem with the hardware. It was causing problems as described above. These problems had been noted by other users a few years back when ESL was a new system. I asked Andy about this directly, and was assured that any such problems had been sorted out, and had not surfaced again.

A test board was brought out, and I spent a few days, and many hours testing, tuning, and re-testing with speed stick. No such problems presented themselves. We did an install of this system on 3 other cars with no issues at all. Alex brought his car down, and everything went well. It wasnt until a couple weeks later that Laski came down, and during the tune his car displayed some of the same problems.

I contacted Andy At ESL about this, and I am sure his heart sank. The symptoms were exactly as described from a few years earlier. Arrangements were made, and replacement boards were sent over.

We all know how that went as Alex has posted it up all ready.

During the re-test of the install Alex was explainging how he was planning to sell his car, and buy a Genesis or 270 because he had a new job that meant he didnt need to keep this car. Once everything was done that day, I refunded him $400 of his investment as he drove back home.

The rest of the story comes down to a matter of opinion. Alex is accusing me of being shady, lying and whatever else he wants. I have spent many many hours negotiating and working to get a refund for him. Sent the boards back with overnight shipping (that takes 2 weeks???), and then UPS spent 1 week trying to deliver the package. It kept coming back as undeliverable.

Turns out, there is just over $350 of boarder charges because the UK gov decided that it was insured for $2000, so it must be worth that. I spent another week trying to sort that out, and was getting nothing back from ESL over the shipment. When I finally heard back from him, I contacted UPS to hear that they have abandoned the package.

Currently I have a claim in for the package, which I am not optamstic about ever seeing anything.

I will be the first to agree that Alex should get a refund of some sort. Which I told him was coming. He pressed more, and insisted that he wanted something done right now. At that point I informed him that if he needed a solution right now, that the $400 he has is for the ESL board, and the other $400 is a tuning credit for whenever he wants.

I currently have another customer who is getting a mafless board from ESL. It will not have the same problem, and I am going to edmonton to do the tune for him so there is no more cost to him. Alex could have had the same agreement, but backed out on his promise to purchase. He got the service, which maybe should, or should not be refunded on. I have not seen many mechanics that will refund the cost of labour on an install of anything, why this is different I do not know.

in the end, I had a deffective product from an overseas dealer. And at great expense to myself and ESL we have been working to get working units into the vehicles in question..... along the way Alex backed out. Long after I had spent more than the original $250 profit on making it right. I am not in a position to spend $1000+ on a $250 service with a $550 peice of hardware.

I am not offering the ESL system to anyone at this point. Which is why the other user above noted no reply. I didnt want, and still do not want to offer a product to someone that has questionable build quality. Once the mafless board comes in, and that gets tested, we will see what happens from there. But, I dont want to be taking peoples money for something that I also am not sure about.

Now my biggest problem is setting up my spam filters to stop the emails Alex is sending every 30 minutes.

This is one deal gone bad because of bad judgement, people going back on their word, and tempers getting out of control..... and I am not just talking about Alex, I accept responsability as well.

You guys can make of this what you wish. If I wasnt being blamed for being deceitfull I wouldnt have much problem with the entire explanation. At no point was I ever trying to cover up anything, or hide any truth. The information that was important to Alex has always been handed to him.

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2009, 01:23:33 pm »
For the record - your name is public domain, you are operating as a public business and as such this is not private information.

Your phone number and address are your own, I have no need to share this information with anyone outside of official channels.

As for official channels, the Alberta Motor Vehicle Industry Council (AMVIC) - has been notified of Mr. English running an unlicensed business at this point, hopefully they take swift action to ensure he becomes a licensed and compliant business operator, or ensure that he ceases all operations.

On the matter of my refund status:

In our original negotiations there was no separation of services in the purchasing and installation of the equipment, simply a $400 deposit with the rest to be paid upon satisfactory installation of the product. I have the e-mail records which reflect this.

Yesterday once you learned of the hardware destruction and were pressed for the rest of my refund, you arbitrarily decided there was a service split in the costs. Half for hardware costs, and half for a tuning fee. You then further complicated the matters by reversing your opinion several times on what I had in fact been refunded for.

1. Initially you told me I have been refunded for the hardware, and that you would not refund the tuning fee.
2. You then said that since the hardware had been destroyed by customs that I had been refunded the tuning fees, and that you could not and would not refund the hardware costs.
3. Now you are saying I have been refunded for the hardware fees and have credit for the tuning.

So, by your reversing of your position on this matter as many times as you have done, I contend that you have refunded half of a blanket cost, that there should be no separation of fees, and that I am owed $400 in money, not services.  As you have stated, you will no longer provide service to Subarus, you have stated you do not wish to do business with me, and in all likelihood AMVIC will be ensuring you do not have any further business dealings in any case.

Edit:
He got the service, which maybe should, or should not be refunded on. I have not seen many mechanics that will refund the cost of labour on an install of anything, why this is different I do not know.

This is different because to this point there has been nothing installed.

Offline Grasp

  • Rivaling ZZ-TOP
  • *****
  • Posts: 1025
  • Soren
  • Location: Edmonton
  • Ride: All Toyota, All the time haha! 1990s Hiace Van, Crown Athlete with 1J! and Altezza
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 02:10:34 pm »
Anton,
Thanks for the well-worded response, it is much appreciated, and I'm sorry that this has happened.  I think that you are both caught in a situation that is neither of your faults, and is very unfortunate.  I hope everything gets worked out on the overseas end.  Doubtless, I think you've made your position quite clear, and I'm sorry that you've had this happen, in Anton's shoes what would you do?  If I was in your position, I would like to think that I'd try to be more understanding - even though you got shafted - it just happens sometimes.
Right is tight. Come Check out the Import-Era
http://import-era.com

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2009, 02:17:30 pm »
Doubtless, I think you've made your position quite clear, and I'm sorry that you've had this happen, in Anton's shoes what would you do?  If I was in your position, I would like to think that I'd try to be more understanding - even though you got shafted - it just happens sometimes.

Grasp, I can't place myself in Anton's shoes, I haven't got the totality of what his situation is to speak from.

If I were to speak as someone who owned a business however, personally if I promised a refund to a customer, using the words 'even if I wind up losing money', I would follow through with that guarantee. How else can a business maintain a reputation or expect to grow their consumer base.

Getting shafted happens, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't fight tooth and nail to make sure it doesn't happen to others.

stinky_1

  • Guest
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2009, 02:45:06 pm »
Thank you for the support Grasp, it is appreciated.

I thought I was pretty clear when I said that I am currently NOT accepting money, or offering services that utilize the ESL systems at this time. The reason is to protect myself from more lost revenue, and to protect the customers.

Everything else has been said as much as needs to be. You have the information you need, and are choosing to ignore it for whatever reason to help justify your cause and position. I am sorry, but I can not help that. You must take some time, look back through what was sent to you, and see if you can understand what has been said. I cant help you do that, even though I tried.

Its too bad it has come to this.  I wish there was more I could do to help you. You have tied my hands, and then asked for more. At this point, there is nothing I could do to help you. Even if you did get a refund now, you can not reverse what your intention was here. So At this point I have zero motivation to try to make anything at all work in your favor.

I will ask you one thing though......

If my plan was to screw you over all along, how come you had half your refund as promised in your mailbox when you got home that same day??? Wouldnt a guy bent on taking your money and screwing you over keep ALL of your money?? Have you got a situation to explain how a dishonest person, with no intention of doing what he could for a good guy, and understandung customer give you any money back? I mean, if my plan all along was to stall you, and keep your money as long as possible, and possibly NEVER give it back, why did you get anything at all??

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2009, 02:56:24 pm »
If my plan was to screw you over all along, how come you had half your refund as promised in your mailbox when you got home that same day??? Wouldnt a guy bent on taking your money and screwing you over keep ALL of your money??

I'm not accusing you of being bent on taking my money and screwing me over. This is not the situation we are in, nor have I presented it as such.

Have you got a situation to explain how a dishonest person, with no intention of doing what he could for a good guy, and understandung customer give you any money back? I mean, if my plan all along was to stall you, and keep your money as long as possible, and possibly NEVER give it back, why did you get anything at all??

I -AM- accusing you of using your customers to soak your losses because you don't know how to ship something to the UK properly, resulting in destroyed property which would cost you more if you didn't deny my claim for a refund. You are operating a business and must take the risks as the business owner. I as the customer should not be expected to pay for your mistakes.

rith

  • Guest
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2009, 03:00:02 pm »
Really, a person is out of $400 for goods and services not received.  

A tune is pretty useless without the hardware.  A person who cared about their customers would give the guy all of his money back.   What use did he get out of the non-refundable $400 tune? None.    Really, at this point you're just keeping the money to cover the loss of money on the faulty equipment you tried to sell him.

That's how I'm reading it.   

stinky_1

  • Guest
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2009, 04:00:49 pm »
I -AM- accusing you of using your customers to soak your losses because you don't know how to ship something to the UK properly

Care to explain this in further detail or retract the statement?!

Bottom line here was and still is, a package was shipped with enough insurance to cover it for loss or damage, It was routed through the US, the US customs didnt like how the paperwork was filled out, so they called to confirm it. They then filled it out however they did it ( I havnt seen it), and UK customs took that info and decided there was money owing in taxes on the item. To top that all off, somehow the package went from being sent via Purolator to the hands of UPS, who are the ones that delivered it in the UK.

Now, do you want to explain to me how a package is sent from canada to the UK with $2000 insurance and DOES NOT get border charges tacked onto it????

You assume much based on your emotion. The situation with shipping was far from my control. And as I said before, I have lost well over $1000 on this deal even before you have any money in your pocket. You "soaking up" $400 is such a small amount. Do you want to split the costs? You can send me back another $500 if you like and we will call it even!

As I said in the email though, there is no way you could reverse any of what you have done, so there is no point in me trying to give a refund at all. Your getting your $400 worth right now, doing this. You made this choice all ready. So, there is no worry of a refund on my part anyway.

its funny how the other person affected by this has stayed silent. He knows he is being looked after, and has no concerns about the whole thing.

Offline doubtless

  • Patchy Faced
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2009, 04:22:09 pm »
Care to explain this in further detail or retract the statement?!

Gladly.

Anton buys 4 units
Anton sells 2 units
Anton has the 2 sold units returned for being faulty
Anton has 4 defective units
Anton has 4 defective units destroyed

Anton can either accept that he has lost product as a risk of business
-OR-
Anton can try to make a customer soak $400 out of the lost product to shrink his losses

Math is fun!

Bottom line here was and still is, a package was shipped with enough insurance to cover it for loss or damage, It was routed through the US, the US customs didnt like how the paperwork was filled out, so they called to confirm it. They then filled it out however they did it ( I havnt seen it), and UK customs took that info and decided there was money owing in taxes on the item. To top that all off, somehow the package went from being sent via Purolator to the hands of UPS, who are the ones that delivered it in the UK.

There was insurance! Can I have my money now?

Now, do you want to explain to me how a package is sent from canada to the UK with $2000 insurance and DOES NOT get border charges tacked onto it????

You assume much based on your emotion. The situation with shipping was far from my control. And as I said before, I have lost well over $1000 on this deal even before you have any money in your pocket. You "soaking up" $400 is such a small amount. Do you want to split the costs? You can send me back another $500 if you like and we will call it even!

Your business losses are not my concern, I am a customer, not a business partner. I have no interest or concern whether you profit or lose money, I only care for my own money.

As I said in the email though, there is no way you could reverse any of what you have done, so there is no point in me trying to give a refund at all. Your getting your $400 worth right now, doing this. You made this choice all ready. So, there is no worry of a refund on my part anyway.

We'll see.

its funny how the other person affected by this has stayed silent. He knows he is being looked after, and has no concerns about the whole thing.

The other person affected by this is a University student under debt load and cannot afford to stand up to you. I on the other hand am in no grave financial risk over the matter of $400, however it IS still a significant investment of time for me to earn that money, so I will make all efforts possible to either reclaim that profit if possible.

How Laski deals with you is his business, if he's happy with 4 MONTHS turnaround on a resolution for this, that's up to him. This is about you and me.

People have asked me to put myself in your shoes Anton, I ask that you put yourself in mine. Is it fair that I keep $400 of your money because I screwed up?

Offline jer

  • Admin
  • Rivaling ZZ-TOP
  • *****
  • Posts: 3251
  • Location: not edmonton, AB
  • Ride: 06 WRX Wagon
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2009, 05:42:29 pm »
ok ok ok guys
simmer or take this to PM. It's getting a bit too heated.

Offline BlackArcher101

  • WSC Supporter
  • Rivaling ZZ-TOP
  • *****
  • Posts: 1493
  • Location: Calgary
  • Ride: '03 WRX, '16 Outback
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2009, 07:59:10 pm »
I just have one thing to say.  Stinky... your reasoning for not giving a refund baffles me.  Not giving a refund to a customer because your company didn't get a refund as well should never be an excuse. 

Offline sniper512

  • Beards Comin in Nice
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
  • Location: Cranbrook, BC
  • Ride: 2003 Bug to the Eye
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2009, 08:53:54 pm »
I just have one thing to say.  Stinky... your reasoning for not giving a refund baffles me.  Not giving a refund to a customer because your company didn't get a refund as well should never be an excuse. 

Exactly. Period.

I have a small company of my own and let me tell ya looking at both sides the customer is right and usually is most of the time. If you shipped the product overseas and it got lost, destroyed what have you that should in no way effect your customer. If you can't afford to refund a customer $400 then really you should ask yourself if you should be in business. I would be handing $400 over ASAP, but from what I have read from your responses that will be unlikely.

Offline rs_two_five

  • WSC Supporter
  • Rivaling ZZ-TOP
  • *****
  • Posts: 1382
  • Location: Victoria
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2009, 03:30:42 pm »
wow.. brutal on both accounts, hope you guys can sort something out, I hate seeing shiznach like this going on, especially here on WSC..  
IBTL

Offline rockcrete

  • Stubbly Faced
  • **
  • Posts: 148
  • Location: Maple Ridge, BC
Re: AVOID ESL TUNING - FAULTY PRODUCT - Avoid tuner Anton English
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2009, 08:06:31 pm »
Just out of curiousity, has the problem been duplicated by putting the ECU's in a different car and getting the same problem?

One bad ECU I can see, four in a row, though, you just have to wonder and work through the possibilities......